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Hello to our audience. Thank you for listening and giving up your valuable time. We’re joined today by doctor Greg Bailey, the CEO of Juvenessence. Where We talking about the business of longevity? How long can we live? What effect will that have for businesses and the economy and what can we expect to see in the future of healthcare in decades to come? Doctor Bailey is a serial entrepreneur, an financier of biotech companies. He’s had the good fortune to have his companies go through 20 billion dollars in market cap and to bring 2 drugs to the market through these companies. One is the number one drug globally for prostate cancer and the other is a recently approved drug for migraines. It is unusual for an entrepreneur to have two drugs successfully make it to market, but now he’s going after the most extraordinary pathology of all aging. His new company has in licensed 20 potential therapies to modify how you age based on rigorous science. These drugs actually affect the pathways that cause yourselves to edge to regenerate the tissues that degrade with age. And they will attempt to prevent you from getting diseases like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. This is a key theme with the new company in Prevention of disease as opposed to just treating disease Doctor Bailey. Thank you for joining us. Pleasure to be here Alex. But the first thing I wanted to ask is what made you decide to dedicate this portion of your life to research longevity? What I do? I have a couple of partners and my role is to try and find the next new thing. About nine years ago I met a gentleman name Luigi Fontana, who is one of the top people in the world working on caloric restriction. If many 1800 calories in women eat 1200
calories a day, you live 15 to 20% longer annual. Be healthy. Next year I’m adding gentleman named Valter Longo. He said you get almost the same effect as chronically eating 1800 or 1200 calories if you intermittently, once every three months. If your normal weight once a month. If you’re overweight, is every six months. He particularly skinny. Now you 5 days, 800 calories. During those five days you don’t consume any meat products an you limit your complex carbs and that that will reset your body almost as if you were doing the clerk restriction. I would like in it too high intensity training, interesting versus endurance training. You know where your training every day. We’ve obviously found that high intensity training intermittently, you know, has a remarkably different reset. One of the thoughts on Valter Longo’s work is that when you do this intermittent fast, it tricks your body for three months. In the case of normal person into thinking that it will be chronically fasting so it resets how it processes energy, which allows yourselves to live longer. The next piece of the puzzle for me was meeting a German name. Walter Boards who’s out of Gerontology at Stanford, and he said it of mathematical equation. Alex for how long you live. He claims 25. Percent of it is lifestyle. In other climbing ice cliffs without a rope, you’re going to die younger. You know if you’re in a loving, healthy, respectful relationship with family and friends who live longer. 15% is genetic and they know that from Twin Studies the jeans play left interesting, we thought. I disagree with doctor. It’s quite incredible fully, he says 65% fitness in the diet, doesn’t play a role. I clearly think diet plays a significant role, but he’s found that people will. I mean that that seems naturally into it. It doesn’t it? Yeah, I mean, there’s so many studies and things like that, but I
defer to him as he is clearly one of the experts in the world. And this he he said, that fit people mentally and physically degraded 1/2% year unfit at 2% a year. Another one of his colleagues have shown that fit people, on average, live eight years longer to be contrasted by people who smoke who died 12 years younger. So these are the things we can materially do. But you and I, Alex, we know that there’s nothing special about. You know dietary restriction or fasting or exercise. It has to be doing something on a cellular level. And so. I began to look what is it that these things are doing on a cellular level and I guess my great Epiphany was seeing how much work has been done to define those cellular pathways and the one thing I know is when scientists know the pathways, they’ll figure how to mess with it. So as we will evolved over those next six years, I saw that they were really beginning to materially figure out how to affect these cellular pathways. and I have two business partners began to send this information to them, and one of them is a German name. Jim Melanism. Polymath angim, you know, bombarded with as many research papers as I was sending him, Indiana send me, he decided next paper was going to be on his next book. He’s written 6 or 7 though. Was going to be an anti aging. He was going to call the same name as our company Juman Essence talk to the top people in the world and that. You know, research speed, the scientists and the research centers, and he basically gave my other partner Deckland Dugan, who was former head of drug development at Pfizer. He gave us a road map of exactly who to go, talk to an which institutions, which universities, and kick started. The company usually takes deckenii or business models. 10 license, 10 drugs, and usually takes us three to four years to find 5 to 10 compelling drugs. But because of his book, you know we were suddenly on, you know, an accelerator.
And we were able to put together 20 therapies. Now in the little acting acting as an incredible catalyst. Yeah, quite amazing. Yeah it was extraordinary. Then I was interviewed by somebody else and they said, well, what was it about aging that fascinates you and it’s sort of strange. When I, when I was six years old, little girl who lived 2 doors from Maine died of meningitis because she was allergic to all the antibiotics that would have saved her and I as a 6 year old I couldn’t fathom this, I mean. Just kept repeating to my mother, you know, but they took it to the doctors. They took her to the hospital. They should save her, she said. Unfortunately Greg, she was allergic. Know know, know, know, know, know. They took it’ll hospital. She saw the doctors. They should’ve saved her an I just add six I could not enough. The tapestry of life to be able to contextualize that so. That’s a very, very hard experience for a 6 year old. Yeah, and it’s interesting. Cousin talking does not experience for anyone particularly 6 year old. The when I began to talk to other people have gotten into long jevity. Each one of them has this sort of story. Aubrey Degray has one where his mother was trying to teach him piano and he thought no, I want to stop people from getting old and dying. My quest talks about a time where he walked through a Cemetery in his hometown and you realize that everybody he loved would be in that ground and he. Need at age 22 is a PhD student. He had to change that so it’s funny how they all have a story. Anyway long winded answer this simple question. It’s amazing and you buy background. You’ve actually you started out as a doctor working in A and is that correct? Yeah, 10 years. Wow, so so you’ve been on the effectively you being on the frontline, so you’re truly a practical. You’ve had the practical application of all these skills, which he then then effectively taking into the lab.
Yeah, I think that you know. The asset that I’ve been fortunate enough to have will come through this interview with you is a relatively good communicator, so I can distill a technical argument so that an investor understands what we’re trying to do with our company and yet be able to upgrade to talk to a PhD who has a compelling new therapy to modify. The M tour cellular pathway and allow you to live longer. So yeah, the that was an interesting skill set and the practical applications knowing that whatever we come up with, how it has to fit with a physician’s actual their business model. If it’s going to a road their their income, they’re not going to jump on your program very fast. Your therapy, an in effect you so very much as a bridge between that scientific and medical world and the business world. Which is again fits. I mean probably 80% of what I teach you. what I, what I spend time consulting companies on is communication skills ’cause it’s not just communication with individuals, it’s communication of a planets communication to ourselves. It’s incredibly difficult to strategize if if you’re not able to effectively communicate. 100% agree with you, you know, and I think that you know and I’m sure you do you have a good career based on that. ’cause Not everybody excels at that. That thing you have to have a narrative that people will subscribe to and that is from. Not only investors. Not only your shareholders, but the people you’re working with. In our case, physicians and scientists right through to patients, and we have an RX division to consumers. You know they have to understand where you’re trying to take them and share your vision or your business falters and they
have to know they have to know you’ll meaning done they. Yeah, you know what’s really behind what you’re doing. It’s the amazing thing about what we’re doing because you know, as I told my employees that it. Christmas party, you know? I mean, I thank them for their passion and dedication. ’cause they’re all working extraordinary hours and, you know, but the amazing thing is, if we’re right, we change the world. You know, if I can add 10 healthy years to your and you and your love ones lifespan mean. How would you re imagine your lifetime if you had 10 extra years? Yeah, and that’s a very interesting topic, which he say because you talk about about life span and it makes me think about this comparison of lifespan versus health span. Which would you mind elaborating on that point a little bit for me? Yeah, it’s it’s a surprising number that on average, which means that some people are far worse. The discrepancy between when you’re healthy when you die is 10 years in developed world. That means some people 20 years of debilitating illness before they finally pass away. Except in Denmark, where it’s four years and nobody seems to know why.
And the unfortunate thing is that it’s actually going the wrong way globally. It was 51 healthspan. Now it’s 49 globally. So we’re able to make people live longer, but we’re not not able to make them live longer with the same quality of life, correct? And isn’t that the ultimate goal? You know? Don’t you know? Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of personal sort of a way of recognizing this, because with my own father who has been very unwell for at least the last 10 years and has been considerably on well for the last 20, it’s it’s of course it. You feel a sense of guilt when you see a loved one who is going through so much pain and you’re constantly trying to find solutions and a lot of traditional sort of medical solutions that are in place. They are not very good at finding the problem and I think some of that is because you know so much of our General Medical body is git. Was this idea? Well, here’s the guy who’s going to fix your heart. Here’s the guy who you should go to about your liver or your back or anything else. And sometimes you don’t have enough of this coordination of someone looking looking at all. The things from relation, if you have more of a systemic issue, couldn’t agree more and it’s why do. In essence I think is going to be very disruptive because our goal is not to treat your disease, not to react to the pathology. I want to prevent the disease. I want to prevent the pathology and taking one of our products in our company’s brilliant people out of leeway and Steven Haggerty Professors. They you know, the amazing thing about them is that they are trying to figure out how to. Prevent you from getting Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. You know this is my
own personal, and there’s probably even split of scientists who agree with me and disagreeably fundamentally. Once I think you are miss folding the proteins. You know the barn door is open. You know the horses have gone bolted. You know it. That cell is now programmed to Misfold. So we need to prevent it from ever happening. and I think that that’s going to be the key to neurodegenerative disease. So prevention of the top 10 leading causes of death are all age related. Your chance of getting cancer, diabetes, dementia, respiratory disease. Cardiovascular disease or are 50 to 70 times higher at age 70 then they are at age 30, so something’s happening in those 40 years that’s predisposed to to these diseases. If we can slow cellular aging. I push all of those diseases out to your point. This is completely disruptive to to Pharmaceutical industry to soc, you know. So it’s it’s a fascinating new frontier than Medison is about to enter, where I can prevent. Very diseases that cause most people to die. It’s incredible. I mean, I was just kind of off the cuff question, but where do you think radiation sits in with affecting the way that we age? And generally there’s the sort of global populace, you know? I mean, we are no sun damage so. You know there is that that aspect. We now know that when you fly. You know you undergo significant radiation, particularly new Dreamliners and ones that are carbon fiber. You know the Air Canada will literally pull their staff pilots, flight attendants off a plane when the radiation level gets too high, so it clearly plays a role in aging. You’re aware of that? Then
there’s you know the shock to which brings us to an interesting question about. Everything to do with therapy. You know what time should I take my dose? When do I take it? How much do I take it if I take the windows, do I need to take something else to counteract the side effects? People who are close to here Shima Nagasaki, who are exposed to radiation. But they were certain distance away live longer. There’s a certain level of radiation we actually live longer. And then there’s another dose of radiation which, as we all know, kill you. And there’s another dose which fundamentally accelerates aging. Will it if a friend of mine who’s very active and actually the alcohol industry in the wine industry he was sharing with me a fact that since about 1943 uhm that every single bottle of wine has a small amount of radiation that’s detectable in it, which I thought was was just so interesting to see that the that that identified as an effect of Hiroshima. And it’s quite incredible how that affect lives on. But it’s interesting. The idea that some radiation can actually be be be beneficial. It was a single study, so I don’t want to make a big deal out of it. You know, clearly something we need to look at further, but needs some surprising and counter intuitive that it definitely stands out if it’s accurate. What does your own personal longevity strategy look like? So I think they’ve now coined a term biohacking. So I am biohacking, um, there’s a number of supplements, a couple of drugs that I’m taking that you know after extensive research, I think that they fundamentally play a role an clearly staying fit. You know, I do some. Not sure about of how long I live with doctor boards, but I certainly acknowledge it plays
a significant role, not the least of which is in health span to circle back to your earlier question, you know people who are fit an just have a better quality of life. So that a diet I do once every three months, I chloric restrict for five days to 800 calories. In general I tried to perform that reset. Yeah and eating a defined period of time everyday. ’cause of the role of key ptosis. Our first product that we will launch in June. In essence in Q3 of this year will put you into ketosis. Your heart prefers ketones than sugar, so it actually functions better and within called left ventricular ejection fraction is increased when you. When you have ketones and your brain prefers sugar but actually is less Dilla, Tarius if it’s using ketones as food. So in theory you know this sort of supplement product would protect your brain, protect your heart and mammals. They live longer. So um, that’s part of the equation. So supplements drugs, you know certain drugs, metformin as it had a. Huge studies had seemed to show you live 10 years longer on it. There’s also some studies that show there’s issues with it, and so it’s, uh, but the bulk of the studies are very positive. And then there’s a fascinating study by Fahey, where he gave people a combination of drugs and it didn’t slow aging. It reversed aging out of UCLA. So very interesting. I think we’d all. We’d all like a bit of that. What about sleep? Well, how important to sleep? It’s interesting? Uh, no stop saying it’s interesting the. What we now now is. There’s a period of time in your brain where sleep is so very important to its releases growth hormone, which is obviously good to have secondarily
is and not secondary. It’s actually the primary thing we do not have lymphatic system in your brain, so where toxic chemicals are creating any other part of your body, the lymphatic system can clear them from the cell membrane, doesn’t have the luxury of that, and what we found is that during sleep in a 2 hour. Two or three hour period. You literally. Have retrograde flow of toxins down your vascular system. Clearing the toxins out of your brain which dovetails perfectly what we see in Alzheimer’s patients who, when they you know the quality of their sleep, falls in their Alzheimer’s accelerates or the symptoms that day or exacerbated. And you know, I think we all see some degree of that, even if you don’t have Alzheimer’s. If you haven’t had a good night sleep, your cognition is compromised. So yeah, it plays a remarkable role for something we previously haven’t understood well. But this clearing of the toxins certain and it can be shown on a pet scan is currently quite dramatic. Why would you mind? Also sharing with us what your typical days exercise look like or typical week. Yeah, I mean you know. So I will acknowledge that you don’t have to do this. This is just me. But you know, exercises both my physical and mental therapy. You know when you’d starting a company up for after two were only 2 1/2 years in. So we started with two employees. Union raised 168 million dollars. Now have 30 employees, so it’s been quite a steep curve. So I mean, I, you know, get up in the morning. I don’t eat, you know I drink a substantial amount of water to start my day. And then I don’t start until in my case, around 3:00 or 4:00 o’clock in the afternoon, and then I’ll eat the 68 hour window. Now I actually do the same thing so I do fasted cardio in the morning, which I do for about 50 minutes. Yeah, I keep. I keep my heart about 135 to
140 beats per minutes, and then generally speaking, I won’t studies. And till about 2:30 or three. But my my issue is I don’t. I don’t stop eating.
I don’t think you’re alone with that, given the rise of overweight and obesity. Yeah, so a great program, but you just need it, by the way, met Foreman is a mild anoraks, and so it certainly helps you limit what you eat. ’cause I don’t feel that hungry anymore. And when our drink comes out, the first thing I’m going to do in the morning. That ketone Ester that I talked about this job, protective neuroprotective and cardioprotective. I’ll take that to push myself into key ptosis into. That accelerates the fasting effect. Yeah, we haven’t done extensive study on that. Again, that’s more intuitive than back by rigorous science, but just makes sense to me, so will do that. And then we do know the ketones are very beneficial to your body. So then then you do that, you know work a full day. I exercise later in the day, ’cause it’s where I download mentally and physically so I can sort of get rid of the anxiety my exercise you doing. Cardio or weight? Some. Would you mix it up? You know? I mean, I think that what we’ve learned for long, jevity, and for and for how span is, you know, yoga plays an important role. Meditation plays an important role. High intensity training dramatically changes. You know, VO2 Max and elements. You know that we can measure as far as fitness and endurance plays the role. We also know that weight training is very important. So I have a real Clack Tick Mix during a week of all of those things. Um, so usually I might time doing exercise other than when I’m locked down in London is an hour and a half. You know, some mix of those four or five things. Generally I stress a muscle once every five days to the Max.
Do a light workout on that muscle group, whether it’s my lungs, my heart or legs or arms, and then I next day I give it a break. In the next day I’ll do a light workout on that muscle group, and then once every five days. You know, I push it to an extreme, and as I said, also throwing yoga for flexibility and and those sort of things which is interesting because well, with the exception of the yoga. But the idea of of isolating particular muscle groups or particular muscles is is sort of like a classic bodybuilding strategy, which is just actually something that I use where one day you will train chest and triceps, another day you will do shoulders and traps and the idea is to give recovery time for the other muscles. Uhm, you know for the last few years I’ve seen how people have become almost obsessed with some of these very high intensity 45 minute workouts which destroy, try and try and destroy every single muscle in your body, but don’t actually allow the recovery time because people do this every single day. And I’ve read since then some studies which indicate the effect of affectively over exercising, which technically wouldn’t really be over exercising if you were moving between muscle groups, but because they don’t allow that recovery time. I’ve always thought that just intuitively, I’ve always thought that must have an effect on on our health to not give us a body that chance to recover. Yeah, and the state. And by the way, the scientific studies are red barrier that out. The best one I saw was an elite athlete at age 60 or 7 Acura’s age and a doctor, and he literally found for high intensity training. Who’s doing more cardiovascular? You know he did the three minute one minute, minute, 3 minute, one where you stress yourself to a Max three times. For one minute, and then you go to normal pace for three minutes and he said you have to put four days in between and one of the days has to be a day completely off from
that he said you to your point. We over exercise and then you see it with the cross trainers. How many of them are getting injured? So I’m not sure the long term effects, but certainly the acute effects are quite visible with repetitive stress syndromes and in various other things from exercising too much. So now moving moving a little bit, and so if we start to figure out all of these solutions for longevity in the current sort of projections. For when where this is going to happen, how long are our generation is expected to live? Why discrepancy amongst you know the experts from were tapped out of 125? That’s the number an you know. The body is preset to degrade with no matter what you do at that point in time. To somebody like Aubrey de Grey and probably Sinclair at Harvard as well. Would say that you knew. We are fast approaching in the UCLA study would bear that out a point where every year I’m going to be allowed two years to your life. So when Aubrey first told me that people he thought people who were under the age of 55 years ago would be able to live to 1000 based on that thesis, the idea that between 50 and by the time I turned 100 you know that science will have discovered how I can live 250. You know, between 100 and 150 they will discover how I can live to 300, you know, and you just gradually will unlock this. Number a phone number for the people who listen to your podcast is if we had immortality today and the only way you could die is accident, suicide, and homicide. ’cause I have no control over that. You know, and it stated the current rate, which it wouldn’t. ’cause I think suicide with jump homicide may jump as well. Do you want to guess what the average lifespan of a human being would
be if the only way to die was accident, suicide and homicide? Oh my goodness. goodness. 1000 years. Well done you. Most people got surprising. Some people say 120 mile or almost there now, but it’s 1242 and one person in 5 billion will live to 25,000. Wow. Yeah, it’s incredible what time you know. If you start exploring this idea of of how much you know human could probably psychologically take is interesting, but I mean also so when you look at it economically. You know there’s there’s these two things which which are quickly accelerating. One is obviously longevity and the other one is technology, and unfortunately they do not look good for general populous. How do you think that’s going to? That’s going to look when we have a population generally expanding and generally aging, and then at the same time technology effectively taking away lots lots and lots of jobs. You know, have you talked to Eric Schmidt and people like that? They say that you know every it revolution an you know the people who said that it’s going to be devastating. Was the agrarian industrial technology or now machine learning robotics? It’s a problem of Education. It’s not a problem of jobs were just educating people to do the wrong things during the transition period. So because it’s new jumps, yeah, it’ll be a new type of job that will revolve around it. Much more service industry you know to be lots of things where people want people to deal with. You know, I’m fine with the computer telling me what my diagnosis is, but if it’s negative, I don’t want to talk to a computer. I want to talk to a person so it will be so. There’s another interesting fact, and that was in now make you guess again. And he did very well. By the way, on the longevity. If we had a city, the Dinner Party of New York or Hong Kong an I put all 7.8 billion people into that city,
what landmass would I need? So I’m not sure I understood the question one more time, so I’m building a city. The density of New York City or Hong Kong, and I put all 7.8 billion people into that city. How much land would I need to build that city?
Gosh. It would be helpful to know how big New York is or. Square miles then it’s probably about 3 four miles across is probably Six Mile. Maybe it’s 24 square miles. Uhm, well, these are effectively very dense areas of population and I’m guessing that you know. Truthfully, the population is not that dense throughout the rest of the rest of the world. So this is the current exception. And it’s a tricky question. I don’t think anyone can sort of spotted off the top. It’s Texas. I could put everyone in the state of Texas, Texas. How big is Texas? No, but but but the point being that 99.99%
of the world would be. You know able to be done in agrarian growing for us, doing whatever, and I know people do not always going to live in a city of that density. So, but the point is, it’s not a land mass area and because of that, 99% is free. For you, know, agrarian purposes, even though I think agrarian is is soon going to be. You know, you know your fruits and vegetables that you and I either going to be a giant building in the middle of London, hydroponically growing and delivered locally. So it’s not going to be a food issue. And even now we create. You know twice as much food as the world needs. We just don’t distribute it very well. So it’s going to be food. It’s not going to be population issue. If I told you today you were going to lead to 500, when would you have children and how many would you have? You know, I mean, suddenly the game changes dramatically. And I’m imagining from that that it’s probably a question of people having children before their 30, or probably not until the 400. Yeah, I mean, would you have a gap decade? You know where you go skiing? Go to be thin party for the 20s. Yeah, well again, if you’ve got if you’ve got the so it’s not. It’s not. It’s not just how long we live, and it’s not just health span, it’s also how we aesthetically look, which creates a cultural boundary to what is perceived to be. Acceptable to do, and that’s also changing. It’s becoming more and more acceptable. Let’s say to see. Read more bonds generations going to suddenly things like like like participating in a festival or something like that, but that’s rapidly. That’s rapidly changing, but the same time we do face this sort of aesthetic issue. If you want to go to IB thir and you know you’re you’re looking at.
Yeah, and by the way, just for the benefit of the listeners, the Texas is 678 thousand square kilometers, kilometers, 3 three times the size of the UK. Yeah, and then good for sharing. Yeah, I think that in the interesting thing is people always ask me. Well this is only going to be for the wealthy and I actually the drugs now. You know it’s a small molecule drug and I can make it for five P and sell it for £1. I don’t need to charge you know 10,000 pounds a year you know? I mean most people can afford £1 today. Just get a slide that was that point. There was a quite famous famous case in the paper wasn’t there about. Come over his name now, but that chapter was quite highly scrutinized for selling a drug for very expensive price. Martin Short Kelly and he sort of gloated over or something if I remember. Yeah, Marten in jail. Certain workout too well for him now so I can be we can sell the drugs, but what I do think back to aesthetic point is, it’s going to be. I think the two allow you live to 200 with small molecule will be inexpensive to look. And have the anatomy and Physiology when you’re 25 at 190, I think that may be expensive because we’re going to need to regenerate organs and tissues and skin, and that that at least initially, will be a pricey element. Yeah, it seems application by yourself and you knew skin. You could be able to regenerate and they’re working on that with the thing called Yamanaka factors where they’re able to cause things to spontaneously regenerate, and we’ve even got a company we’ve started to work with, which is figured out why. Under the age of Seven, if they cut off the tip of their finger in an accident, in many cases the finger will the tip of the finger regrow. But it’s not supposed to happen. You know afterward, out of the embryonic fetal stage, so he’s
figured out the how the cells communicate to self organized to regrow a limb. So I imagine you know that in the interests 1020 years, I don’t know. The time period will be able to regrow a kidney. If you have a damaged kidney regrow, you know can we regrow skin? So I think we will be shocked. How fast this is going to happen? And by the printing of biological matter, do you think that’s something that’s got through? Like printing? Now they can do arteries. Dean came in in the United States. Is able to create a tissue which is cartilage and bone through stem cells, so you know for all those people who have that issue literally be the hybrid where he previously had to put the car down to the bone. We had to hope that in graft he’s says that within 18 months they will have a small functional heart. Well. It’s just incredible. And then you know for generations like like my father who suffers from poor heart health. For someone like him, would it be conceivable in the future they could just be given a brand new heart, his heart? And you know, we could have his cells growing his heart. Incredible, you know. And and we didn’t need placental cells to do it. Another company we have is trying to use a universal cell line and they’re tying a thing called HLAG, which is the element that allows that prevents the maternal immune system from destroying the fetus, so protects every cell in the body. So if I put that on heart cells cardiomyocytes all of a sudden now. I can mass produce in a factory. And that seemed cell line will be able to use for your father, but
everyone else in England. So you have a frozen syringe in every hospital in England. Or simply defrost it. And if somebody has damaged their heart or the spinal cord I injected immediately and graphs and it’s not 7 year old adult stem cells, it’s one day old progenitor cells and that’s we’re working on with that company. And then amazing, you know, mass market, massive industrial manufacturing. And which companies that it’s called Ajax? It’s a public company in the United States. OK, and in his juven essence also public company now were private. Still private, OK OK, but based on the US as well. Yeah no uhm we are a island man offices offices in London, Princeton, NJ and Boston. Really, really incredible an I mean, would you mind explaining for us? But I want to ask you about your specific business model and how you go about monetizing that, but I thought it be interesting for the audience to 1st have a bit of an overview on how a traditional biotech or pharmaceutical company goes about seeking to monetize. Yeah, you know. So let’s start at the micro biotech side. You know you and I have a concept of a new drug to treat Parkinson’s disease. And what we do is we. Um raises enough money hopefully to get us to their next Inflection Point. And you know, at that inflection point of its successful, then we go out and an raise enough money to get to the next inflection point. The first justice for the benefit. Let’s just expand on that. What is an inflection point just for the benefit is just going to say that an inflection point would be. I mean, if it’s something profound like it’s literally going to change Parkinson’s, an inflection point. Maybe just finding lead drug candidate for other drugs. It may be that you have to be through a phase one clinical trial, and show that you have safety data. And it’s showing the first signs of efficacy that it works.
And then you know that’s probably in the to get to their the two of $7,000,000 range. So sorry sorry for getting where I am 1.8 million Sterling to about 5 or 6 million Sterling and then then you do a phase two trial which is proof of concepts. I prove it safe. Now I want to show that it actually does what’s on the tin and that study can be anywhere from 12 million Sterling to 20,000,000 Sterling. To do that, one at that point in time, big Pharma comes in because that’s exactly the right time. The next study is very, very expensive. expensive. 50 million Sterling. ITS global. It’s multi continent so it’s very good to have that most micro cap biotechs are never hiring 10,000 global sales reps so it’s a perfect time to dovetail with the big boys and and then they come in and they do their thing. Now they will either by the company, by the drug or license the drug. My first 2 first company medivation. We licensed both products, one for all timers, one for prostate cancer. After a phase, two clinical trial and its substantial amounts of money with huge upside. If you’re right, and then they classically take it occasionally, accompanying may have to raise the big money to do a phase three study themselves. Very few biotechs launch their own product, although bio haven, my second company with Deklin. You know the migraine company we actually launched a month ago are migraine draw drugs, so you know that that does happen, but that’s certainly rare, and we had to hire for my mother in sales reps to blank at the United States. Big Pharma. Very different. You know. They literally start, although most of them have learned that not very good at the early stage clinical development and it’s in a custom two or three times as much, maybe more. And is that because it requires
so much innovation and such a different way of thinking, it’s the. Lack of York receipts that it’s a different approach. I think there’s a number of things. I mean, one is they have to count on their internal scientists where I get in license from every scientist in the world. You know, at every University, uhm. And then is that what in license means? Yeah, I literally goat Oxford University and saying This is a very cool drug that you know could modify the nad cellular pathway. I would like to license it from you. Would you want to equity royalty? What do you want an by the way? You know, I mean, have your scientists work on it with me through the clinical developed through to the finding a drug that can go into human trials so. Get equity. Almost invariably, these scientists take equity in the universe. You still taking the royalty or equity and then, um. Yeah, and then, if you’re right, an and you get the proof of concept. As I said, tell your company so the drug or license the drug or you know you do the phase three study and then try and build a sales force which works well for oncology. It doesn’t work very well for anything other than that because there’s regional Centers for cancers, so you don’t have to like blanket 12,000 primary care physicians in the UK. So before Big Pharma steps in, who typically the groups that will finance these kind of projects. Obviously there’s there’s individuals that financiers like yourself and who else would go about participating in these fund raising rounds. Yeah, you know, there used to be a very good Angel base in because the drugs have gotten more complicated that you actually need some science. That sort of faltered. And then there’s the venture capitalist. You know, there’s lots of biotech venture capital firms with a lot of them have swam upstream. They want things in and around the proof of
concept time, ’cause they see that as the quick monetization, you know ’cause they usually Seven year funds. So they cheated there. So there was quite a problem for probably mid 2000, first decade of the 2000s till recently where it was really hard to get financing for a good products because the. Angels didn’t understand it. the V CS were wanted later stage products and Big Pharma’s rubbish at early stage. So it was definitely having a having a stock brokerage background. I’ve I’ve become very sort of familiar with fund raising rounds and we’ve dealt with a lot of Angel investment. It works so so for these for these initial rounds that you would go to typically or historically Angel investors for this would be looking to raise like I think you said something along the lines of 1.2 million pounds. It went through phase one trial. One point 1.8, unless it’s a biological, then it’s. 67 Million Sterling ’cause you have to grow the drug not printed out at factory. OK, and and typically within that stage, how long would you would accompany give itself to in order to raise that 1.8 million?
It was, you know, somebody asked me why. Why did human essence ’cause it’s been relatively successful historically? Good. There’s not a lot of people I think who could have raised 168 million dollars in two years for things that are pre clinical. You know, the early stage and so track record is huge. You know Decklyn Gemini have a pretty strong track record of success. So I’m also sure that that multiplies when you bring such big names. They act. They act like brands within industry. Yes, you know. I mean, if you’re going to bet you want to bet on somebody who’s been there, done that, and you know that they can a attract the right quality of. People in this case, drug developers and preclinical drug developers an and they’ll be able to get successive financing rounds if they’re successful. So does that have a big impact having that sort of sort of world class 1st Class team? Does that have a big impact on overall valuations? Yeah, yeah. So huge differential, you know. As you can imagine, just like anything else, you know if you’re going to bet on Man United, well, actually they may not be the right team to pick this year. This year, Man City and Liverpool, you know, going to bet on the fact that they got great coaching. Great players so you know you’re going to give them a different value then you’re going to give to, you know, one of the teams in the bottom 3. So how does? How does Juven Essence Monetizes? How does it develop its business model? Yeah, so we’ve got. We’ve got to get money to Inflection Point an
we have to show significant progress. I think we also wanted to make sure that we are attracting amazing people in the extraordinary thing. When you try to change the world is you can extract, attract incredible people. So that helps. It’s amazing, you know when you’re doing anti aging. We have a lot of Ultra high net worth, so I think probably invested on. I want to live longer. This looks cute. That might find the drug. So investing them give them a little money. I give money to anyone else who looks like they get credibly. Make me live longer, healthy so that those elements played definitively. We’ve created an offshore structure so that we can sell off a product without having to sell off the company. I don’t think we’re going to. And I’m selling products to Big Pharma. I think we’re going to apply doing licensing deals. ’cause I think they’re going to massively underestimate the size of the market. And they got, you know, yeah sure, this is fibrosis. It’ll be used in the long interstitial pulmonary fibrosis or unfortunate people have died. Complication from COVID-19. Instead of realizing Fibrosis is integral to every aspect of agent. You know, and so if it works in this and if it can be generalized, you are literally going to change how people live. So I think we’re going to end up doing a lot of licensing deals with a significant amount of money upfront, huge milestones, an 50% of the profit globally. So at Medivation are we were getting 100 and 200 million dollars up front, 500 to 700 million milestones and 40 or 50% of the profits in the United States. Double digit royalty for the rest of the world, so I think. Those sort of metrics are viable, so we’ll be able to our shareholders. You know, pay 0 tax the corporate level and then um, do a share buyback so they get long term capital gains. Interesting,
so that provides an exit. Also, would you like and then you know foreseeable, future, ’cause it’s just such a big market were beyond meat you know were impossible that with that naturally with that naturally BUS unfortunately is you and I are in England an I’m not American Canadian. It’s the biggest the deepest markets in the world for biotech. It’s got the most investors. It’s the most sophisticated so you not enable was found on that. I mean we had back in my start working days we had success with the Frankfurt Stock Exchange, but. In the end it was it was all second fiddle to the US. Yeah, you know the market caps for them. The amount of capital, the expertise, the analysts. So it’s probably we in motivation or first. My first one was the fastest growing company on NASDAQ for five years an I think Bio Haven. You know the latest one is on the New York Stock Exchange and similarly had a remarkable ascent. So I’m gonna neither one of those. You know either New York or NASDAQ, so as a sort of final question, where would you like to see juven essence in 10 years from now? Great question. Glad you ended with that it. So if I have a drug that allow you, your father, your family to live 10% longer, healthy but you won’t see the effect for 20 years. Compliance is going to be a huge issue. How do I convince you to take this product? It will allow you to do that. I can’t get people to take antibiotics when they have strep throat for 10 days. So so how am I going to convince them that, you know, there’s this thing in the so where we have to do is I have to create a company. That is so trusted. That you will give
me your data, your biometric data, your VO2 Max, your blood sugar is your various serum levels of ketones that you will trust us that if you give it to us, you have one button will delete it, you hit another button will will transfer to your doctor and then will delete it to to build that level of trust. And by the way, what I learned from you, Alex is going to help everybody else who’s part of this network you cease to be a patient or a consumer. You now become a participant, so that level of data will will Maine accelerate this whole process of allowing you to do the extraordinary thing is, I don’t care. We use a Fitbit and Apple Watch whatever you’re using.
If you can trust us with this data so now with that data we can begin to modify. We also democratize healthcare. You and your smart phone. As long as you have a smartphone, does matter. If your Mozambique in some little town in Africa or South America or Asia, wherever you will have the same amount of knowledge as the professor at Oxford and Cambridge, who’s an expertise in this? Lynn Cox City at Oxford, you know, or human gum? Read the top. I see you guys. You’ll have that level of knowledge and Democratizes Healthcare and this data will not just be a take. Juven essences drug will recommend a competitor. And if they have the better drug for you, take their drug and this supplement. And by the way, Alex, you need to increase high intensity training where I need to increase endurance training. Biggest meal of your day should be lunch. Biggest meal, my day should be dinner. We’re going, so it’s incredibly Taylors with the individual exactly. And yet not because again, when I’m learning, there’s probably 1000 people who will probably billions of people whose biggest meal should be lunch. So we begin who should increase high intensity training so it becomes that. This trust that we’re trying to build a gym. In essence, it’s the main model is one we want to prevent disease, not treat disease. Two, we want to build trust, trust with you, the participants, consumers and patients. Trust with our scientists that were treating them fairly so we continue to have a sustainable business model and trust with our employees. That what we’re doing is legitimate and appropriate. And it’s not the anti aging cream that you see in boots which has no chance of changing how you age, you know? So it’s this level, and if you have that trust in us and we recommend this product for you will take it that in many respects biomarkers. So I need to know that when I have no problem with compliance, if I tell you to take this, the ketone drug that I just told you about PHP, which is going to be called metabolic switch, which will presumably play a role in decreasing your chance of getting one of the forms of Alzheimer’s disease. So if I give that to you and your family. Anne, I tested the beginning. We’re
to show this is how your DNA shows you are aged, not how many years you lived on the planet. How many years your body is. So there’s a difference between a chronological age in your biological age. So if I have this. To be able to test you and say Yes, you know Alec, you’re 30 three years old, but biologically or 27, you know by your DNA methylation. Now you’ve taken my drug free year and I can say to Alex why you taking this pretty here, you only aged eight months. So it’s almost like you know a lot of this is big data, but it’s the idea that if data can be two way if it can be that they get a lot of added about added value back on that data, then I think that will trigger. Of course the natural sort of inclination to want to share more exactly.
And I learned from you exactly, almost like a partner in it. You know, I, I think that, rightly or wrongly, is just a personal opinion, but I think that. The cultural perception behind privacy, I think, is really the issues that we’re facing in today’s Day and age. I think really are quite short lived because I think that we realizing that a lot of our data which we think is quite personal, we think, is quite is quite sensitive in many cases isn’t, and I think that when I look at for example my nieces or friends of mine with my kids, when you look at them they their perception towards these things is much more open than. You know the current generations. It’s an interesting point, and probably a whole different interview, but you know, unequivocally agree with you. I mean, when they you know Edward Snowden came out with the NSA was listening to my phone calls and my emails. They don’t care about me.
Yes, I’m talking about blowing up a building. It is it really matter if you know what my VO2 Max is. So I agree with you and I hats off to the next generation for realize there is going to be lines in the sand. I’m not sure you know China’s facial recognition and the fact they know how I walk so they can all of a sudden monitor all of our citizens is probably problematic, but I’m not committing any crime, so if they want to monitor me and it gets me through the airport in three minutes instead of waiting for an hour to come through the line. And then what does it matter? Yeah yeah, and I think that’s I think you hit the nail on the head, which. Is that in order to make things easier and more convenient? That is how data ultimately will win. Why will ultimately become the sacrifices that people willing to make? what I rather take longer, or rather, do things more quickly and efficiently, but give up a bit of data. You give me your information. I’m going to allow you to live 50 years longer, healthy, it be skiing at age 120. You give me your day. That sounds pretty good to me.
So I look forward to having dinner with you in 100 years my friend. Absolutely I’m doctor Bailey. Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to that dinner. But it seems a long while often will be hungry. Till then take care. Cheers now. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Joy listeners. Thank you for giving us your time and your patience. Bye bye for now.
This was another episode of the Alexander Johnson podcast. Make sure to subscribe for more business health, fittness and mindset.